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This interview originally ran in 2019.
We are republishing it on the occasion of the films release on Hulu.
Instead, Marianne must pretend to be Heloises walking companion, sneaking glimpses of her subject to recreate later.
This movie crushed me.
I walked around for days, so sad.
Did you anticipate that reaction?All three:[Laugh.]
Sciamma:You cant anticipate the reaction.
But its part of the project to think about the audience as a group.
Were trying to create a very active viewer, and to put you in a different position.
We have a project foryou, you know?
What specifically were you thinking about?Sciamma:The emotional journey.
Creating a new pace, a new rhythm.
A new experience for the viewer, with this slow burn.
Part of the pleasure, part of the excitement, is being part of the brain of the film.
Getting it, and having this joy, speaking its language.
It becomes this new tongue.
Sciamma:Thats your new word.
Haenel: Thats my new word!
When we did the movie the process of the creation of the movie theres something naked in it.
We are not sheltered byhabitude.How do you say it?
Were not sheltered by cinema cliche.
Were trying to create something very, very new.
But its not weak.
Because we strongly believe [in what] were doing … [to Merlant] Why are you laughing?
Sciamma:She loves that thats how you respond to, So, how was Cannes?
Its great!Sciamma:No, of course its great.
Its so much joy.
Theres a lot of love around this movie, which is … a bliss.
[All three laugh.]
But when we entered the room, there was already a warm welcome.
Because this is Celines fourth film, I think shes created something a relationship to her audience.
The audience now supports her work.
Theres an exchange of love.
And its not flat.
Were creating something, and the audience has a responsibility in it, too.
Taking the movie and then trying to change the world after that.
Sciamma: No, for real, for real.
I think it can, and I think it will.
I think movies, I think art, can change the world.
Otherwise, why [do it]?
We believe that were creating the future.
We believe the future is a creation of the present time.
This is our responsibility as artists.
So, Cannes was good!
I think I said it once, really.
Suddenly, its this big, emotional thing.
And she said, We are saving the world.
And that was the first time we said it.
Sometimes we said it as a joke, like, Are we saving the world?
It was mostly a joke.
But, of course, images and culture can change culture.
[Merlant looks slightly skeptical.]
Haenel:Why not?
I mean, Noemie, why not?
Sciamma: Its not pretentious.
Its not about saying, We have this power.
Its about believing in the power of culture and cinema.
Its not believing in our power, its believing in the power of what we do.
Maybe youre gonna be important for, I dont know, several hundred thousand people.
But thats a lot.
If it was a cult, it would be very successful.
I would start this cult with you.
So why this specific story?
Why this specific setting and time period?
Whered these ideas come from for you?Sciamma: It was about art history, mostly.
I wanted the Vivaldi [Four Seasons is played during a significant scene].
I wanted women painters.
There were a lot of women painters at the time [the late 18th century] hundreds of them …
So it felt true to invent [a painter] based on accurate research and sociology.
Those are always about strong women.
Haenel:you’ve got the option to make it if you want!
you’ve got the option to make it if you want in this hard world!
They keep asking us to do this, so thats why we shouldnt.
Haenel:Because were not saving ourselves.
Were saving the world.
Nobody asks me anything!
Im in France and nobody is asking me.
I just want to take off strong and just do woman character.
What could be a weak woman character?
What would it be?
Haenel:This is why were creating the future.
So its more common now.
This is the problem.
If you want, you’ve got the option to make it!
To me, its violent to say that.
Its super that there are women superheroes, we need that.
But to me, its a stop halfway.
You are trying to say, Okay, this world is bad, but not that bad.
you’re able to exist if you want.
It becomes not political, and tells you that you’ve got the option to be self-made.
But were more deep into the critical here, in our movie.
The movie itself is political.
It says, This is a possible love.
We know how to love.
When we are together, we know how to fit, how to love, how to laugh.
But were all aware in the audience that this possibility is made impossible because of patriarchy.
Im sorry to say that word, but.
Theres a suspension in the movie.
The impossible is at the border of the movie.
We know that this can only be for two months, three months.
Because once you dive into the world, you cant live like that.
And Im like, no,this is not respecting the lives of these women.
To make them even think,maybe we could escape.
Thats why there was noroom on that door for Jack.Because otherwise they would have to put up with that.
Its a new kind of story.
She actually had me read the part of Heloise.
So that was I remember her gaze, actually.
I remember this strong, concentrated, intense and really kind look.
And then I met Adele in the second step of the audition.
She was intense really intense.
]I was a little bit like,Okay, now Im gonna meet Adele.
I remember she was jumping, and coming up to me with some jumps.
Sciamma: Shes happy!
Merlant:It was cool.
After that, we didnt see each other again to rehearse, and I think that was good.
So you built those relationships simultaneously on purpose?Sciamma:We didnt even talk about rehearsal.
We had the costumes the fact that youre creating the costumes gives you a lot of meaning.
So wed meet, see each other by shaping the silhouettes and the looks of the character.
Merlant:And finding things out about the paintings.
How they looked, how to move [when painting], and everything.
Sciamma:We created the imagination of the film and the characters with concrete materials.
We hadnt seen Noemie play Id seen her in the audition, but that was it.
I really recommend it.
Because you cant be reassured.
That really comes across in the movie.
It feels like were seeing it unfold in real time.
Were either of you nervous about the extreme vulnerability of playing these characters, both physically and emotionally?
Is that what was stressing you out, Noemie?
Theres nowhere to hide in this movie.Haenel:I dont know!
Thats a great answer.
If I cannot do it, I will not do it.
Which means I need the pressure.
I need the fact that theres no way you might run away from the set.
Its something to do with shame.
Something to do with being ashamed.
This is a bit weird, I know.
But I have the feeling that its an important component of acting.
Trying to face the shame of yourself.
Notnothing, but just connect and not hide yourself behind an emotion.
As an actor, you try and show and show and show, and sometimes thats not the point.
I dont know how to explain this to fill in, and to hold back things.
That was really something.
I want to talk about the gaze that you mentioned.
How did you see the gaze informing the sex scene, specifically?
We know that we have the appetite for this love story.
It was about rhythm and breathing.
This is an official sex scene, too.
Haenel: That was so fun.
Sciamma: Its like cracking a joke.
And I had this idea for a very, very long time.
Thearmpit?Sciamma: Yeah.
Thats why I decided to put the drugs in there, and everything.
It was written that way.
Those scenes, I hold them in my mind.
Suddenly, people are blushing, in a way.
Im like,Okay, this is happening, this is gonna be so funny onscreen.And it was.
Haenel:Its also very relevant because it speaks about the way we collaborated …
Sex scenes are usually the ones where actors and actresses are very stressed.
People running after you withun peignoir
Sciamma: A bathrobe.
Haenel: Like, Oh, shes gonna be naked!
Youre used in a way that you dont want to be, but you have to.
We are not stolen.
We are old people.
Now its not about having that conversation between us, its about expanding it and having it with others.
Haenel: If it brings anything, its our mutual autonomy.
We rely on each other.
I trust what she does, she trusts what I do.
Even just sitting here, you two seem to have a shared language.
Youre communicating a lot with your eyes.
Does it feel that way to you?
Or to you, Noemie?Sciamma: We share some stuff.
Haenel: Yeah.[Laughs.]
Its like people who ski jump, before they jump.
That was my state of mind.
It was about high concentration and beingdisponible
Sciamma:Available.
Haenel: for the present time.
What do you hope that shot leaves the audience with?Sciamma: Themselves.
Whoa.Sciamma:Its cinema, and it unveils itself as cinema.
Its a reverse shot between the two characters.
And at that point, its not about the story anymore.
Its about you being in your seat, her being in her theater seat, and you watching.
And you think,Oh, its sad,but suddenly, she lightens.
And maybe you reconsider your own past love.
