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Ive always known that this is an Ariana Grande song, OConnell said.
Ryan, this was your first time acting and you got an Emmy nomination.
Has Meryl Streep been calling?
OConnell:Oh my God, no ones been calling at all.
[Grabs a phone] Hello?
Which feels like a power move.
And the girl goes, Can you do it more artistic?
And I was like, Artistic?
I dont even know what that means, but okay!
And then I started talking and then she goes, No, no, no,autistic.
I was like, [singing] Deeply offensive wherever I go!
And I was like, ItsSpecial.
Cerebral palsy, autism, theyre different.
Patel:You guys dont even look alike.
OConnell: The trolls just never end.
And now you have an Emmy nomination for your performance,after Jonathan Banks was disqualified.
OConnell:Honey, I know!
Shes limping her way to the finish line.
Sneaking in through the fucking back door as per usual.
Honestly, it truly is LOL.
Everything about this show is us just squeaking by.
Its always us defying the odds and people underestimating it.
And so it really tracks that I got this nomination delayed because ofBetter Call Saul.
Punam and Jessica, what did you think when you heard Ryan was nominated too?
OConnell:Theyre like, This bitch.
No one else couldve done what he did.
The level of depth and honesty and humor that he was throwing at us made us give these performances.
So it was perfect that he was acknowledged.
OConnell:[Hecht] said something so silly that actually completely changed everything for me.
You talk all the time.
Patel:And youre just talking literally as yourself because, like, the show is about you.
Its not like youre inStarship Trooperswhere you talk like an alien or something.
OConnell:Not playing, like, a World War II widow!
But that seems harder?
OConnell:It was hard because this character was me, but was not me.
The way he carried himself and how awkward he was, I was never that way.
She was never a wallflower.
I came in fully formed out of the womb like this.
Patel:But you never felt that?
OConnell:I felt it internally, but I never let that show externally because I was so self-conscious.
I went to this four-hour fitting for ill-fitting Dockers and these button-downs and these weird clunky shoes.
I move differently in those clothes.
Tell me about casting Punam and Jessica.
She just had two scenes, proving that theres no small parts!
Only small actors, okay?
Why did you want to do it, Punam?
If it involves him, Im in.I literally never met anyone like Ryan.
Youre the most unique person Ive ever met.
OConnell:Oh, thank you.
I think you infused [Kim] with this warmth and just made her human.
You also are a gifted improviser and so she provides a lot of lines on set.
A lot of which made it into the show.
Patel:Im waiting for my writing credit.
OConnell:We came to Jessica very early on because shes close with [executive producer] Jim Parsons.
She was also in an episode ofHigh Maintenance, which is my favorite fucking show.
But then Jessica wasnt avail.
And if you play her too dark, it gets weird.
We saw some shit!
Two weeks to filming, we still didnt have Karen.
And then one day we got a call that she was available.
And it was like,Thank fucking God.
Hecht:I do have to say that I wasnt available because I was preoccupied with my kids.
I was too much like the mother to play the mother!
OConnell:Classic Karen.
Hecht:But then my husband said he was going to be around so I could take off.
And he said, Well, whos it for?
Maybe that will help you.
And I said, I think its just for the computer?
Patel:You didnt know it was Netflix?
Hecht:[Laughs] I wanted to do it based on the material.
I just thought it was so beautifully written.
She off-ramped her life for something that was gonna be airing at a fucking Dippin Dots.
Hecht:I love Dippin Dots.
OConnell:And now shes nominated for a fucking Emmy, so …
Lets talk about some of the great scenes of the season.
Hecht:Did you have a stuntperson?
OConnell:Of course, you think they were gonna risk my fragile body?
Are you kidding me?
We were low budget, but we werent that low budget.
So our first scene together was actually my first scene with fucking dialogue.
I wasnt comfortable yet.
But I think that worked cause my character wasnt comfortable at all.
Patel:And Im parading by in a bathing suit.
OConnell:How did you feel?
You looked so hot.
Patel:Everyone kept telling me I looked good.
I knew I looked good, but sometimes I feel people try and overcompensate with compliments.
But, no, Im good.
Hecht:You are so pretty!
Im sure people tell you.
Patel:Thank you!
So, it was a cool moment of growth.
After the first couple of minutes, you realize no one cares.
Could you tell that Ryan was nervous?
Patel:No, you present so confident all the time.
Even when youre talking about your insecurities, you speak about them so confidently.
I never feel like I need to comfort him.
I always know hell be okay.
Hecht:Hes so honest.
So, Ryan, that first day ended with your first kissing scene?
Hecht:Where were you?
OConnell:At our corporate apartments.
I was so nervous.
I wanted to confirm that we get the awkwardness of the kiss right.
My job was so humiliating!
But Jason was amazing cause I forget that actors are so used to this.
Theyre so game for whatever.
And it actually, really helped that we had this prep time before.
What about the scene where Ryan loses his virginity to the sex worker played by Brian Jordan Alvarez?
OConnell:I was so terrified, and Brians just this magical unicorn thats like, Whatever, babe!
It became so funny, cause the first part of the scene is me undressing from a suit.
I wrote myself scenes not knowing that you had to do things 40 times.
And that was a lot for a gimpy girl like me!
By the time I was naked with Brian, I was so liberated.
I was like, Yes!
I can just lay here with my legs up in the air like a fuckin paid vacation!
Patel:Its sweeter than how most people lose their virginity.
And it involves disability and sex work.
OConnell:It was based on my own experience with sex work.
There were lines in that scene that I actually had sex workers say to me.
Can I write this off?
I think its illegal.
OConnell:I was so scared to do that scene.
Remember, I told you that?
Hecht:You were anxious that day and I didnt understand.
OConnell:It was a really intense scene.
Also, werent we shooting illegally in a car wash?
OConnell:Honey,Blair Witch Project.
We were fuckin [deepens his voice] guerrilla filmmaking!
We went through the car wash like 20,000 times.
My inspiration for that scene was my dad, who is so cheap.
We were driving and he was like, I need to get my car washed.
Im going to go to this places 20 miles out of the way cause I will save a dollar.
We ended up going to this scary Jerry corner of Tarzana.
There was a guy on meth screaming at the sky without a shirt on.
He actually was hot, which was triggering.
Hecht:Oh Jesus.
OConnell:We went through the car wash, and of course the car wash breaks down.
OConnell:it’s crucial that you give your children credit for fucking you up.
OConnell:I had a hard time with the idea that Ryan was somehow bad for telling this lie.
I remember the producers saying that he should have consequences.
That is Storytelling 101.
But I didnt want him to be vilified, because I think its a choice that everyone will understand.
Patel:Anyone who knows how the world is would understand why he had to do that.
you could be compassionate but still be upset about a situation.
I think a lot of anger comes from a deep fear of being humiliated.
It was not what Ryan said, but that he grouped Kim in with everyone else.
Thats why Ryan is such a great character.
Hes not painted as a hero.
Theyre not allowed to be flawed.
Hes not here to be your inspiration porn.
Patel:Thats like the real way to celebrate people.
The final scene was brutal.
Mom and Ryan broke up!
It was really intense and fucking crazy.
And then we found out that the camera stopped working.
Essentially, we lost all the footage.
Hecht:When they checked the card, it just wasnt there.
OConnell:Yeah, honey.
That scene was allegedly gone, girl.
Had you left Austin already?
Somethings not right here.
Its Building a Mystery by Sarah McLachlan.
It needed to be sent out to like Oslo, Norway, or wherever the fuck.
So then we had to reshoot the scene, which is such a troll.
Hecht:It was so unfortunate.
Hecht:[Sighs.]
At three in the morning.It was just a nightmare.
OConnell:So we did it again.
It was not fun, but then amazing happy ending!
the guy in Oslo, Norway, four months later, was like, We got the footage!
What was it about the first time that worked so much better?
Hecht:Its an incredibly well-designed scene.
And we did get into a groove.
It became very pure.
OConnell:Once we had it, we were like, Lets go!
Because its not a scene thats fun to do.
We were yelling at each other.
Hecht:Its not fun to do those scenes.
OConnell:What I learned was you yell and its chemical.
You cant even fake that.
Your bodys not knowing that youre acting on a fucking TV show.
So we would cut and Id be upset because I just spent the last five minutes yelling at someone.
Why did you choose to end the season that way?
OConnell:They were going on their separate journeys.
She just lost her relationship with Phil.
Ryan has cost her everything.
What do these Emmy nominations mean to each of you?
Growing up, I never really saw anyone that looked like me in that space.
Hecht:I love that.
We did this on a shoestring and we did this for us.
But also, on a really basic level, Im 54 and I hate auditioning.
To be very practical, it may mean that I dont need to jump through hoops as much anymore.
What other business do you have to trot yourself out all the time?
I do think that would be nice.
OConnell:You heard it here first!
To me, its really validating because the road to getting this show made was paved with trolls.
We went out with this and everyone said no.Which is essentially like them saying no to my identity.
No, your story actually doesnt deserve to be told.
So, to be recognized for this, it feels really good.
I wasnt crazy for wanting to do this show.
I wasnt crazy for thinking that someone like me could exist onscreen.
