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I think I have a fascination with subcultures.
Not just military you get it in me writing about cops, in me writing about spies.
Its these pseudo-hidden sort of cultures that are not entirely opaque but outside my day-to-day experience.
And they are communities and cultures that I have brushed up against frequently throughout my life.
I grew up with the training grounds for the Seventh Light Infantry Division literally in my backyard.
And then superheroes show up, and the first thing they do is go to war.
We dont talk aboutGowanus Heights, for instance.
Stephen CranesRed Badge of Courageis an antiwar novel.
Maybe thats whyThe Old Guardis being sorted into the superhero genre right now.
And I still dont.
And I think that the affiliation with the comic medium has made that easier.
It came from a comic book, therefore it is a superhero movie.
And I think thats false.
Leandro and I never once sat down and said, Were doing a superhero comic.
We say it in the comics.
It is a fairy tale of bullets and blood.
And then we end up deconstructing it.
We do not have nearly enough explosions, according to the Marvel testament of superhero movies.
Thats not what this movie is.
The effects inThe Old Guardare pretty tame comparatively.
The biggest effects sequence is near the end.
And its not terribly spectacular as much as it is visceral.
If you come into this going, I am expecting what I got fromThe Avengers,boy howdy.
They all have the same boring power.
And we didnt even make it so cool that they dont feel it.
We made it so it sucks that theyve got this power.
It has one fantasy premise from which everything else springs forth.
You dont callLord of the Ringsa superhero movie.
Maybe thats because they were novels.
This is a deep, deep pool and a broad, broad tent, folks.
And its time we started recognizing that.
What steps did you take to make that happen?
Nile has no impact on this story whatsoever.
And I kind of sat there.
Her purpose in the comic was to be the readers entry point into the world.
But Niles effect on the plot is limited, if not minimal.
The second draft was the Nile draft.
Not only how it affects her but how she affects it.
What that exchange is and what those changes are.
What does she need to grow into?
Where does she need to get?
And it was the second draft that got Gina in.
That was the draft that Gina read, and she was like, I want to do this.
The movie makes a pretty strong connection between military acts of aggression and the long-game humanitarian benefit.
I like watching movies where shit blows up as much as anybody else.
And I want to see the bad guys be made to pay, because I like the fiction.
Because were seeing evil triumph over good every fucking day.
I would like to think we accomplished this in the movie.
That there is a responsibility in how you depict these entertainments.
Weve got a team that we know is out there fighting and killing.
And Nicky has the line, We take a stab at do what we think is right.
And I like that line a lot because its conditional.
Theres a humility to it.
Wetryto do what wethinkis right.
We dont presume to know all the time, and we certainly dont presume that we get it correctly.
But were doing the best we can.
And the other option is not do anything at all with what weve got.
Ultimately, it does boil down to power and responsibility.
Yeah itsSpider-Man, but its also just humanity.
And one can argue that is the only purpose to a life.
But if the story has no end, then that purpose is lost.
There is no driving narrative to your life.
This is not superheroic, its human-heroic.
That is what we are meant to do.
This may collide with the action-movie tropes that one is obligated to when youre telling a story like this.
They have to fight.
Theyre going to have to shoot people.
Things are going to have to blow up.
And has mattered in ways you could never see and could never, ever imagine.
Because you cant know.
Nile has the line, Theyre in it.
They cant see it.
And thats true of all of us.
Were in our lives.
I dont know if the donation I made to Black Lives Matter is actually going to save a life.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
