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We need to talk more about Martin Campbell.
The New Zealandborn director successfully helped reinvent James Bond twice, with 1995sGoldenEyeand 2006sCasino Royale.
The Mask of Zorrowas a film with a long development history.
I turned it down three times.
I think Robert Rodriguez was the original director, and Banderas was cast already.
And three times I said no.
Finally, Steven Spielberg rang to ask me, and basically, he convinced me to do it.
What was it that Spielberg said that convinced you?Well, just that it was Spielberg.
I had only worked in England basically up to that point, and Id just doneGoldenEye.
So, someone like Steven ringing you up I was very impressed.
I reluctantly agreed, you could say.
We had an original script, which I didnt like very much.
I dont think anyone did.
Very good team, very good production-design team.
Did you end up rewriting the script?Oh God, yes.
The script was rewritten by David Ward, who deserves to be credited but wasnt.
He did the final rewrite on the script and did a terrific job on it.
Thats really what brought it to the screen.
The script that I read, Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio wrote.
That whole idea of the peasant from across the tracks meeting the upper-class girl.
Its a classic tale.
They put all that in place.
What David brought were the characterization and the humor.
He did a complete pass-through of the script.
People were worried that the dialogue was too modern, too contemporary.
Even Steven was, I think.
John, of course, I had worked with onGoldenEye.
He was a very funny, entertaining man.
Never used to announce his name on the phone.
Because Im fucking fed up with it.
Ten days later, I get word that we were green-lit.
I ringed John and asked why he green-lit this movie.
Hilarious kind of logic.
We were too far into the project.
Too much money had been spent.
Not that I know of.
He may have been there at one point but I never heard the name mentioned.
I very reluctantly have to say that I cant do it.
Thank God, because we heard back from Hopkins on a weekend.
He had sneaked out ofThe Edge, and had a laser operation on his back.
So, he accepted the role.
And he was perfect.
It still holds up.Yes, it does.
Aside from the fact that you are a genius, why did it work so well?
How did this happen?Who knows?
One of the great things was having Catherine Zeta-Jones.
Theres nothing like being able to have someone really stand out.
That was Stevens suggestion, actually.
We went down to Mexico, I tested three lead ladies and Catherine got the part.
Banderas was terrific, of course.
And we also had Hopkins.
It was a tough film to make.
The studio hoped it would turn out okay, but there were no expectations.
We just got on and made the film.
I didnt get a call saying, Hows it going?
We didnt even have a second preview.
I did reshoot the ending of the film.
Theres this kind of I know what youve done, you know what Ive done relationship between them.
That was the ending.
That was what was previewed and the preview went tremendously well.
[But] someone came up with an idea and said Look, theres one day of shooting.
Why dont we have a mirror of that?
Which I thought was tremendous.
So, thats what I shot on the lot.
Theres a couple of things that jump out at me about your work.
You have a really good sense of space.
You always know where everybody is and the context of the action is always very clear.
Is that something you work on a lot ahead of time?Yeah, very much.
A lot of people firing guns and people dropping dead.Where is everybody?I dont know.
The action itself tends to be very fast, blurred.
Theres no geography at all.
Ive always thought [about] that problem.
One of the great things onZorrois that they fight with swords.
Well, how often do you get that these days?
I was watching on Netflix the other night a film calledExtraction.
I dont know if youve seen that.
Its Chris Hemsworth shooting probably around 500 people.
Its just guns, blasting, almost to the point of deadening.
Now, its very well-directed.
The action is very well-directed, and you do know whats going on.
At least we didnt have guns inZorro.
That was the great thing.
Its very dangerous, that stuff.
Not impressed by actors stature.
He just put them through the mill.
Thats the secret of it, to have a terrific swordmaster training your actors.
Its just bullshit when you see that.
Those films just sort of came and went.
A film I would love to remake isScaramouche, which probably had the greatest sword fight of all.
I think its Mel Ferrer and Granger.
Its a wonderful story.
Theres also this palpable sense of loss in a lot of your movies.
InThe Mask of Zorro, with the brother early on and Anthony Hopkinss wife and his daughter.
Maybe its just sort of instinctive.
I dont know why I choose those projects.
Yeah, now that you mention it, it is an element in my films.
I dont quite know why.
A lot of revenge movies do this, obviously, like theDeath Wishes of the world.
Theres a long emotional scene where Hemsworth talks about his son he lost and so on and so forth.
He is not emotional at all.
You dont feel anything for him.
Oddly enough, for me anyway, it just doesnt work.
No, not really.
I just think its very important to have an emotional spine to the story that is woven throughout it.
Thats something James Cameron gets.
Even inTerminator, he does it with Schwarzenegger and [Linda Hamilton] and you believe it.
Otherwise, brilliant though he is, it would be flat.
But they always comment about pace.
Is it fast enough?
I think it could move faster here.
This goes on and on.
Im very careful to pace my movies before I even shoot.
Between each of those sections of card games inCasino, theres some action that goes on.
That was brought on by [director] Terence Young right at the beginning whenDr.
Youre the guy who rebooted Bond twice and very successfully both times.
Was there any trepidation onCasino Royale?
Was there a sense that you had done this already?There was when I didGoldenEye.
So, Bond legally wasnt allowed to be made.
It was only after Parretti went.
The revenue was declining.
I remember having that discussion about why would Bond be relevant in the 90s?
Is he an anachronism?
So, first of all, we put a female M in.
We didnt have the rights toCasino Royale.
Columbia had them because of the terrible [1967] comedy … dreadful piece of work.
Then you cut to Roger Moore … well, they were two entirely different Bonds, basically.
Connery could kill without any hesitation and there was rough sexuality to the guy, something dangerous about him.
Roger Moore was never dangerous.
The sense of humor and the twinkle in Rogers eyes, he made it his own.
It depends on who you cast.
They can adapt essentially to contemporary events; I think thats whats going to happen.
Ive still got five days of shooting, of course, because the virus fucked it up.
I did manage to get a week shooting in London before the gates came down.
We almost got through the film before disaster struck.
Whats incredible now is that I can edit from home.
Shes in the picture window and Im in the picture window, and we can hear each other.
She has all the footage, and its as though Im in the room.
Its just as fast as if I was there.
Ill be happy to edit like this while Im at home.
People are going to realize that you might actually do this stuff and just as efficiently.
Its going to change our way of working.
