The filmmaker onNow Apocalypse, writing through the AIDS crisis and Trump era,and gay-baiting onRiverdale.
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The kids are still lost in a haze, but theyre super-chill about it.
In person, Araki, 59, is blithely content.
I like living life and really beinlife.
Its very much my brand.
And part of that [is the] apocalyptic mood.
Your boyfriend cheats on you and it becomes this catastrophic event.
It is like the world is ending.
The millennial generation is much more likeNowherethan young people were at that time.
LikeThe Living End.The Living EndandTotally Fucked Up.
That particular sense of doom came from a super-dark place.
When I madeThe Living End, I was living in the tiniest apartment ever in Los Angeles.
I had no money.
Just that feeling of, Oh my God, why dont I just die today?
I was feeling so hopeless and so miserable.
And I see it now.
My understanding was that shootingThe Living Endwas very fly-by-night.The definition of fly-by-night.
We had no permits.
We had literally nothing.
People werent being paid.
It was just this weird labor of love and everybody was there because they believed in it.
It was me and a 16mm camera.
It was that kind of punk-rock project.
We were young and dumb and just had nothing to lose.
Doom Generationwasjust [a] fucking insane shoot.
Every day was so much chaos, so much craziness.
The second day ofDoom Generationwas the Northridge earthquake and we had to cancel our shoot that day.
It was just one insane thing after another.
It was, like, crazy kids doing crazy shit.
We live to tell the tale.
Ive never had this death wish.
Ive always been very interested in alternative culture and the rebellious, different, outside-the-mainstream thing.
But Ive never viewed myself as being self-destructive.
I dont take drugs.
Theyre trying to anesthetize themselves in some way.
And Im almost the opposite.
Im trying to be awake.
I dont want to be dulled in the senses.
I like living life and really beinlife.
Do you feelNow Apocalypseis more optimistic compared to your early work?Definitely.
It was me spewing all of my dread about AIDS and the holocaust.
And the older Ive gotten, Im happier than Ive ever been.
I live a life of literally, like, no drama.
You grow out of it.
You become the person youre meant to be.
How did the AIDS crisis informThe Living End?Well, thankfully, its different for the current generation.
I hope that nobody ever has to go through what we went we through.
It was a nightmarish, surreal thing to live through.
Also, it was so politicized.
The ending ofThe Doom Generationfeels very current to me.
But its interesting, we wroteNow Apocalypsein the twilight years of the Obama era.
In the pilot.And the fag-bashers drive by.
Just this sense that the world is a little bit more dangerous than we think it is.
That was a post-Trump addition.
Lets put the black people back in the back of the bus.
Do you feel at all vindicated by that sense of nihilism?
I know thats twisted in its own way.We live in really scary times.
When we were driving here, its cold and snowy.
Even though its March, it feels like the dead of winter.
AndNow Apocalypseis so pop and bright and odd and sexy, and theres a kind of psychedelic feeling.
Theres a warmth to it.
And I just feel like the world really needs it.
Its an antidote to all of this darkness and all of this chaos.
Right now, at this moment.I dont know what you consider that.
I mean, isBohemian Rhapsodyqueer cinema?
It was a very specific thing that happened in culture.
That, to me, is like the queer cinema.
I mean, having gay characters in movies isWill and Gracequeer cinema?
I dont consider that queer cinema.
We all are on our own separate path.
And the thing about New Queer Cinema is it was never really orchestrated.
It was just an accident.
All of us, as artists, processing that and responding to it.
And then we all get older and move on and do other things.
Queer characters in movies is not queer cinema.
So, what do you think of then …What do I think of queer representation?
I think thats awesome.
Weve come a long way.
I literally, last night watchedBohemian Rhapsodyon the plane.
It wasnt like it was completely out of the story.
I have more of a problem with biopics in general, because theyre just such a weird genre.
Its not a genre Im terribly interested in.
To its credit, I think that they dealt with it.
I guess what Im trying to get at is, what you think about the mainstreaming of queer stories.
Do you think something is lost in that process?I feel like its interesting.
We premiered the show at Sundance.The Living Endwas my first film.
I mean, you should have been there.
You werent born yet, but peoples jaws were on the floor.
It was such a crazy, punk rock, underground, 16 mm, weird movie.
It made a splash.
And then, to go back there in 2019 withNow Apocalypse, which is very much the same vision.
Very unbridled, very unapologetic, straight out of my imagination and to the screen.
And its a Starz show.
Its gonna be seen all over the world.
Theres billboards on Sunset Boulevard for it.
In much of your work, theres a fascination with a hunky, straight white guy.
Thats one thing about the show, we can subvert it or play with that stereotype.
Hes this rugged, corn-fed all-American guy, but inside, his character is basically a needy girl.
Hes the emotional one.
He cries a lot.
And so, the objectification of that symbol.
But at the same time, all of the guys of color are equally objectified.
The idea of questioning the whole notion of objectification, particularly queer objectification.
Does that make sense?
I hear what youre saying.
Im curious then: How do you see race operate in your work?
Because I live in a multicultural world.
And so thats always been a big part of my sensibility.
Designers need a creative concept.
So its really the objectification of people of color or something that is part of the reeducation process almost.
Like, what is desirable?
That is something the show addresses.
I guess theres also more context Ive never felt like its held me back.
Because I have a different voice and Im coming from a different perspective.
So it automatically makes your work more interesting.
Rather than just the same old white, straight, patriarchal point of view that is the status quo.
I wore thrift-store clothes and had this asymmetrical haircut.
I was really into Godard movies, like, I was that guy.
I was not out.
Which is, to me, super-telling.
Thats what the 80s were like.
Somebody like that was still not out.
I eventually came out, in a way.
I think that thats, again, how far weve come.
A kid like me today would absolutely be out of the closet.
Kids are coming out when theyre 13, 14, 10.
And, I mean, hello, hes the lead of the show.
He was the most … heh.
Archie wasnt wearing a T-shirt.
Roberto [Aguirre-Sacasa] wanted like a mix.
But there was a lot of singlets and a lot of skin.
It was like the gayest thing Ive ever seen, and Ive done a lot of gay movies.
I was like, Whoa, this is pretty gay.
It was shot very sexily.Why they hired me, I guess.
ButRiverdaleandTeen Wolfand all those shows, theyre all made by these super-gay creators, right?
And they all have these super-hot guys in them.
Like, I get it.
I get that theres this gay sensibility at work, and theyre objectifying this guy to a ridiculous degree.
But they feel almost frustrating.
Like, were getting blue-balled.Yeah, a little.
I mean, I dunno.
But that show is a online grid show.
Its on the CW, so theyre very This is what we can do.
But our show, we can do whatever we fucking want.
Its like theyre gay until the bedroom.I mean, [Archie] waskissing some dudethis season.
Anything they can do to gay-bait the audience, they do.
But they all do it.
Its like, whats his face, Nick Jonas.
Its just like, Ill fucking pose in my underwear, grab my dick, show my ass.
Its like, Whatever, Ill do anything.
But Im still straight.
If you wanna get super queer-theory philosophical, its fetishizing a straight guy to a ridiculous point.
Where its like, our show, we give you that.
Avans what he is sexually fluid.
We can show the relationship and not have to go through all these machinations.
Its almost like a comment on it.
You wont see that onRiverdale.
Im not gonna comment on [Archies] objectification in the way hes fetishized.
Do you think thats a online grid thing?Its a mainstream show.
It has a different demographic.
And I think that its a young audience that maybe is just one toe out of the closet.
Thats fucking great for them, but thats not what our show is.
We have queer characters; they have queer sex.
They can take their clothes off.
Everything in life is uncertain.
You dont know who you are, what youre gonna do, what sexuality you are.
Youre just a ball of confusion.
Which is, for me as a filmmaker, so fascinating.
And theres just so much dramatically and dynamically that can happen.
Like, the characters ofNow Apocalypse, anything can happen to these fucking people.
They could be fucking president.
They could be a fucking heroin addict.
We dont know whats gonna happen to these these fucking kids.
And thats so, creatively as an artist, such an awesome canvas to paint.
Its not meant to be arousing, although theyre sexy.
I feel like American movies in general are so puritanical and they really avoid sex to a weird level.
So for me, sex in movies is when you really get the truth of these characters.
You get to know them in the most intimate, personal way possible.
If you think about it, everybody has this public persona.
You and me sitting here at this table talking.
And then theres the persona that you have with your friends.
But then theres the you that people who youve slept with know, and thats a different person.
As a filmmaker, thats what I find really fascinating those personal, private moments.
Do you think thats a truer or more vulnerable self?Yeah, definitely.
Its when your defenses are gone, your masks are gone.
I mean, youre literally physically naked, and also kind of emotionally naked.
And that is something Im really, really into.
Again, its not about titillation.
Its all youre thinking about.
And thats not the way it works in my shows.
I feel like you forget that theyre naked.
It feels kind of natural.
Im happy that Starz pays for my lunch.
Its weird because it is a little bit of a backhanded compliment.
Its a little ghettoizing, but I understand.
My definition of success is, I still have kids coming up to me.
Like, Your movie means so much to me.
And that is valuable to me.
Thats not as rewarding.
Because as an artist, thats what Im really about.
Saying something and knowing that somebody out there is going to get it.
