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Irin Carmon:My first theater writing how should we start?
Sara Holdren:Well, are there specific things from the show that youre still thinking about today?
Things that stuck with you?
:I need to confess that I was afraid I would hate it.
:Oh, thats fascinating!
:I obviously approve of and celebrate its intentions.
But political art that doesnt feel self-celebrating or preachy is hard.
And its everywhere these days, in extremely mediocre forms.
:I did not likeGloria: A Life.Nanetteleft me cold.
Im still irritated aboutSweat.
Whereas theres something much more delicately balanced and expansively humane about what Schreck is doing.
[I saw Thursday this time; Irin saw Rosdely.]
:Theres an amazing moment in that debate when Rosdely snaps at Heidi, Pandering!
And I guess I want to be pandered to just enough as an audience member but not too much.
When we madeNotorious RBG, the book, we thought about how to speak to both.
So ultimately, I was taken aback by how emotionally affected I was by the play.
I kept wondering why I was on the verge of tears the entire time.
And I think Schrecks performance, while it hasnt changed in huge ways, has developed muscles.
Its gotten more visceral more risky and exposed.
The pain of it all and the defiance is more visible underneath what she calls her psychotic politeness.
I.C.:Yes!
It was like Tracy Flicks revenge.
:But I think were also on the verge of tears (me too!)
because there really is a solid-as-a-brick-shit-house backbone in there.
Schreck has us in hand both as a performer and as the constructor of the play.
She really is pulling off the double whammy of Tricky Theater: Political and Memoir.
S.H.:Yes.
So its a pretty amazing thing to see her both enact and analyze that kind of emotional response.
To dig to the deep, ugly roots of it and get past the Why am I crying?
Some sort of going on, but with heads up.
:I agree with you about the statistics theyre horrifying, but in that kind of numbing way.
And Im never a fan of news-shaming: If you dont know this fact, you should read more!
The statistics feel deadening while the play feels invigorating.
:But weve seen strong personal, emotional storytelling before.
:Yes thats the jump.
Shes using memoir as a vaulting horse up into a broader, extremely sophisticated conversation.
A legal one, a historical one
I.C.
We overheard someone as we left the theater saying, Thats not what the Constitution is about!
She didnt even mention the Bill of Rights.
:Lord, what a response.
Did they miss the last two words of the title entirely?
Although I have some tiny, uh, quibbles there.
:Go for it.
:Its not pedantic to know your shit.
:It matters because what RBG actually did would lend itself seamlessly to the plays arguments.
And not only to women, but to men whose roles the law was constricting.
She represented men who wanted to be recognized by the law as caregivers or spouses.
Which would have been a great segue to Mike!
I.C.:Yes!
RBG was squeezing the existing document as hard as she could.
Just to achieve acknowledgement of women as human beings.
:I kept thinking aboutHamilton, because how can you not?
Its the Obama of musicals.
:The Obama of Musicals.
Do they give Pulitzers for single lines?
Because I think you just won one.
:Yes, and thats new!
Theyve bumped up the ferocity of the shows final debate.
Theres more intense, semi-extemporized back-and-forth between Schreck and the young debaters.
Its the first time Ive heard that very scary, very real NRA argument from Thursday.
:So heres theRBG sound-biteI would have used:
I have a different originalist view.
I count myself an originalist, too, but in a quite different way….
Equality was the motivating idea, it was the idea enshrined in the Declaration of Independence.
But equality was not mentioned in the original Constitution.
Because the odious practice of slavery was retained.
The genius of the United States has been its growth capacity.
Recall that We, the People, were once white, property-owning men.
That concept, We, the People, has become ever more embracive.
Today, We, the People, has a marvelous diversity, wholly absent in the beginning.
It lets someone else sum up her thesis instead of her.
:Its also exhilarating because it really places Schreck in a different kind of legacy.
Women on a public stage making this argument again and again as many times as it takes.
:Its the blunt fact of systemized dehumanization that really is the shows central punch-in-the-stomach for me.
Oh my god, you are a human being!
:My debate counterpoint is that just because its simple doesnt mean its easy.
This play is also that refusal.
It gets to our intimate relationships the people we love and how they hurt us and fail us.
:I loved that.
That, and the recurringDirty Dancingreferences.
I am pandered to just enough.
What the Constitution Means to Meis at the Hayes Theater through June 9.
