TheChewing Gumcreator on racial fetishes, Brexit, avoiding Twitter, andBlack Earth Rising.
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DoingBlack Earth Risingwas a watershed moment, rearranging her perspective on the world.
As a war-crimes tribunal against a Hutu leader unravels, so does her personal life.
Ive had to learn a new way of empathy, and I dont know if everybody is into that.
What does she mean by that, exactly?
My understanding is that you auditioned forBlack Earth Rising.
I had to audition for that job.
I have been offered one TV job the second character I played inBlack Mirror and one theater job.
Im not in that offer arena.
I know your IMDb gets to a point where you just receive offers.
That is not where I am, and I dont know if its where I want to be.
You feel this amazing sense of,Wow!
When youre just offered, its just like,Oh, so what jobs have I been offered today?
Let me have a look in my office.
I feel like that euphoria and terror and fear goes away.
I do like uncertainty, because life is uncertain.
Even after I got [Black Earth Rising] I kept saying to the director, Are you sure?
They said, No, no.
We dont need to.
I said, You have to.
Its like, Guys, dont get gassed.
I may not deliver.
I made them audition me.
Black Earth Risingis about how personal trauma and historical trauma intertwine.
[Voice breaks.]
It took me like a year-and-a-half after we filmed to realize how much Id learned from playing this woman.
Weve got to!Its a way of not looking at you, maybe because youre not aware.
Looking, looking, looking.
Calling, calling, calling.
Going at war, going at war.
It sounds really strange, and it sounds like Im not making sense.
But in looking for my enemies I became surprised to find a mirror, and I saw myself.
You are not just a victim.
I had to learn this.
I hope that makes sense.
Could you give me an example?Yes.
For example, I gave something calledthe MacTaggart Lecture.
I decided to reach out to a lot of new writers and say, Send me your first contracts.
I dont wanna get Channel 4 in trouble …
There were things like regulations put in place that no writer could be paid anything under this.
Then when you saw the contracts you see,I didnt know that was regulation.
I was paid under that.
I want to be clear, but I also dont want to attack.
Theyre going through stress and you go,Oh God!
Youre not even intentionally fucking shit up.
Youre just not thinking.
And I, sometimes, dont think.
What do I do now?
I throw you off a cliff because you didnt think?
As if Im always thinking.
I had to have a little bit of empathy, which has changed the way I navigate my life.
Ive realized that everybody has different life experiences, and we all end up with different perspectives.
My perspective isnt better than anybody elses, its just another perspective.
If I take a stab at suggest my perspective as better, Im wrong because its just mine.
Right, because those two sides arent equal.What are the two sides?
I learned I cannot draw conclusions for the other side.
I can just show them what I can see.
For example, I cant call up those people and go, Systemic racism.
They switch off, because its an attack.
But if you go, Oh, look at the payments here.
What do you think?
Its seen as an attack.
Im not just trying to shout at people; I want the next writers to have some equal pay.
That might feel good to call up and say, Youre racist, or, This is systematic racism.
But how does that bring equal pay?
Did these conversations result in more equitable pay?Definitely resulted in more opportunities.
I know so many writers, and it did resolve in more equitable pay.
Some writers say, We use your lecture as receipts.
Theyre execs and theyre new writers.
I dont know if its resulted in pay equality.
I would have to see contracts; I would have to have that kind of power to even work.
I dont have any power in this industry.
Did you feel like the reaction was misunderstood?How was it understood?
I dont mind that.
Ive learned on Twitter, just dont talk anymore.
Dont write anything, Michaela.
Dont write any tweets.
Just, Hey, this is happening.
Heres the show coming out.Be that person.
Ive never voted Conservative in my life.
Ive never said anything nice about Theresa May.
I learned dont ever say anything nice.
Dont ever have a go at understand people who have a different perspective publicly.
How then do you view pro-Brexiters who voted to leave?
I assume youre not …Im all for remain.
I grew up in London.
Ive grown up in Europe.
Being chased down the street with stones thrown in my path.
Do you think Brexit surprises me?
That people want to do things like leave?
This is where I live.
I understand where Im from.
Theyve been very, very, very hard.
When you are in the hardness, you have to venture to see something good or youll kill yourself.
How many times can your face be rubbed in the mud because youre a nigger?
You want me to go.
Youre afraid of me.
Once you see someone is scared, it really does something to your perspective of the person hurting you.
What do you do when people are afraid, and they dont even know theyre afraid?
All I know is, I saw Theresa May, and they werelaughing and scoffing.
They were just men laughing, scoffing, telling her, You are humiliated.
If people were doing that to me, I dont know how well Id manage.
Whether the point is wrong or right, whether the person is a queen or a pauper.
If you imagine being that person, how would I handle that?
Looking at the genocide, the fearmongering, the propaganda, you realize fear is at the heart.
Why do we protect things?
Why do we lie?
Why do people in places of privilege keep these secrets?
To avoid sharing things because theyre scared of losing things; theyre scared of losing legacies.
It doesnt make these people innocent.
Do you think there should be a second referendum?I dont know.
I think everything is very interesting.
Im like, So whats it gonna be now?
Its gonna be 48 percent leaving?
Is it going to be that big a difference, guys?
Once again, it goes back to perspectives.
I know my vote wouldnt change.
Would anybodys vote change?
Would anybody go, I admit I was ignorant?
Did you feel ready for the sudden acclaim that came with the first season ofChewing Gum?
I think it was a maximum of 500,000 views.
I was so proud.
It felt like a cult classic.
You wanted everybody to see it, and they did and they loved it, and thats amazing.
It can overwhelm because it doesnt feel natural.
So many people know you.
I used to go out I didnt brush my teeth; I wouldnt shower.
I would be able to sit on the street.
I remember once I had an eye infection, and I went to the emergency doctor in Shoreditch.
I just looked like a very invisible spectator of the world.
I was able to really do those things and I loved that.
I could go anywhere and not be noticed, and now thats really gone.
I can still get around, but Im known for things that I consider nice things.
Things to be proud of.
But look, Im fine.
Its not a problem.
I can leave my house.
I dont need security.
I liked how weird and painful and funny and gross that journey was for her.
Even in secondary school among me and my black friends, it was not cool to do sexual things.
It was like, Somebody let some guy suck her tits.
Thats like you disrespect the person.
Were going to get those opinions from our culture, [and] even from people who arent religious.
Theres no dialogue about sex.
In my house, it was never mentioned its biology; its unavoidable.
I wonder if knew more about sex I wouldve made fewer mistakes.
I mean huge ones.
Im always like, Thats really intense for me.
And I always ask, Have you orgasmed while having sex?
And they go, Oh, no.
They like big dicks and tricks.
All these positions, positions, positions, positions, positions.
Like, sex is so simple.
Its almost like a pretend, where [they] are not pursuing pleasure in the sex.
I dont think we really think sex is pleasurable for us, too, as women.
I was lucky enough to have a relationship where I was allowed to figure things out.
This goes beyond heterosexual relationships.
One person takes dominance, and the other person doesnt get much after that.
I dont like that because its not fun for both parties.
Not that domination is bad.
If both parties like it, great.
But it did freak people out.
People didnt want to see that.
Im [prouder] of doing that than I am of many other things Ive already done.
I said, this is my last chance to really just be out there having sex with strangers.
Once its on Netflix, its done for me; its over.
So Im gonna live this period; Im gonna do it.
Thats when I encountered Ashes.
Sexual energy is an energy.
It doesnt have a color or a face, and some people only see what you look like.
It was easy to write Ash because there are so many of them.
Ive experienced it and many other people have.
Was he a composite of experiences?Oh, yes.
Also, just not real.
The dressing up, thats not real.
Its an exaggerated version of trying to like someone who you know is fetishizing you.
Some guys love long weaves and contact lenses and eyelashes and big lipstick and all this kind of stuff.
They just wanna run their fingers through it.
Ive had guys that are like, No, I love you natural.
For me, this is all a form of fetishizing me.
I wanna do what I wanna do.
Its a very exaggerated telling of something true.
Many people dont see it.
This happens with a lot of artists.
My communication skills are really something Im working on show by show, interview by interview.
People see season two as darker.
Maybe it is darker, because maybe my communication wasnt quite effective in season one.
People laughed, but they didnt see everything.
Im realizing maybe that exaggerating and being absurd, it works, but it doesnt work for everybody watching.
It doesnt quite get to everybody.
I was a poet cleaning in the food court.
I saw myself as very successful, to be honest with you.
Im just finding ways to tell stories and ways that I want to connect.
Were trying to make things en route, so theres no destination.
Im trying to write.
My friends say I dont enjoy things enough.
Maybe its to do with being the child of an immigrant.
You have to just keep pedaling.
What are you working on now?Im working on a show for BBC Two.
Ive done all of them though.
Would you do a third season ofChewing Gum?No.
Its so strange, I kind of relish in this news.
Its like I love giving this bad news.
I love telling people its over.
The party is over.
Its like, I get messages from people, they say the wanna kill themselves.
Im gonna kill myself if you dont do another season.
Youre still here though, right?
Would you do it for Netflix?No.
Im like, Good.
Im not doing another season.
Anybody else can do it.
Im just not doing it.
