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If this beat is inspiring very basic words, then I move on.
If some beats are just really good, then Im willing to come outside of my comfort zone.
For Kaelin, that was a process.
Mm-hmm, got ideas.
Okay, EP done.
On to the next.
ButHOUSEfeels spontaneous, though the lyrics are still thoughtful.
If Im on tour, theres no rush to get it done.
Itll get done when it gets done.
Or sit, listen to beats, and wait for inspiration to come.
I think the beats forSkullsare from 2012.
Theres other records likeHOUSE, which are like,Im finishing this in a week.
The payoff, if you get it right, is massive.
Or Let me put a little bit more time into this to make this a little bit more avant-garde.
Some dope high-level rap shit that all of the peers are going to respect.
One element of your career that I always felt was underaddressed is your ear for production.
Early on, you worked with Kanye and Pharrell, butTetsuo & YouthandDrogas Wavehave these cinematic, layered productions.
Crystal [Torres, his instrumentalist], come in bright.
Does that mean Im a producer?
I dont know, maybe.
I do understand trying to set scenes and themes and what a certain song should feel like.
Like The Coolest off ofThe Cool.
It should feel very cathedral, Baptist church with a weird orchestral, angelic, big Bible vibe.
Theres beats that feel very open, very closed, very private, very happy, very sad.
Theres a range of things, and it depends on what I feel the story demands.
Some cases its like that; some cases its not.
Fuck all them n - - - - - .
Ill fuck with Joe.
Fuck all them n - - - - - though.
In real life too, though, thats real.
But anyway, as you were saying [Laughs].
Thats why I kind of dont take press seriously, because youre not engaged the way a fan is.
Dinosaurs wasnt meant for adults.
It was me if I had to explain dinosaurs to a kid.
So whose fault is that?
Is it my fault?
And he sent me a joint out of the blue, and, of course, it was ridiculous.
I just sent him Dinosaurs, kind of tit for tat.
He responds with, Yo, I love this shit.
Theres so much in the world to talk about.
And I need to figure that shit out.
Its not just rap for Genius its speeches, all kinds of shit.
It doesnt educate you; it doesnt build you up; it doesnt get your mind to think.
But you like the beat, the melodies, the way theyre saying it.
All of these complex top lines and these dips of intonation and pitch, and thats engaging to you.
But I dont do any of that stuff.
I deal with words, and I deal with reference points.
Thats like my job.
Thats what Im good at, and thats what I choose to do.
Im not trying to belittle you if you dont understand it.
I take a stab at split the difference.
Hopefully, you will connect with that other person and then theyll give you the other half.
Life is very complicated, from my understanding.
I just dont put Fuck the police, and thats it.
Its like, Why are we fucking the police?
Is it even cool to say Fuck the police?
What does that do with the police?
What are we going to do if we dont have police?
Lets break it down and get into the nuts and bolts.
I think that is where you find the solutions, if youre willing to do the work.
I didnt want to just do this project with the dude and then just … its fifty-fifty.
Its me and him.
Its not just Lupe.
When its just Lupe, I can do whatever the fuck I want.
But when its him and then not only him but the label …
I didnt do any press withDrogas WaveorforDrogas Lightbecause the press is a slippery slope.
Even withthe BBC article.
Where did I mention Obama in that shit?
Why is that the headline?
I was actually pretty upset with that.
It was kind of like,See, this is why I dont do press.
They could experience their entire career on TikTok.
They dont even need to have a YouTube page.
I just need this quick one-minute situation, and Im going to build an entire career just off that.
Or an Instagram video, 60 seconds … Its kind of very hyperpersonal, but I dont talk toeverybody.
But its also been about telling people about COVID-19.
How many people are wearing masks that are Lupe Fiasco fans?
Hopefully all of them.
Fuck music I would like to keep you and your family alive and not sick.
Theres certain folks in the hip-hop space who come from a place of rebelliousness, not trusting the system.
Motherfuckers aint just saying Fuck the police.
Im saying Fuck the police as an example of just a general complex of their worldview.
They really mean it.
Theres people who just dont understand that shit.
I feel like thats been the theme of this conversation.
People critiquing EPs that they didnt even listen to.
People not doing their due diligence about wearing a mask.
When you look at the people that are critiquing Virgil, how much didyougive, first?
This is at the height of the protest.
But D.C. hasnt had cash bail since 1992.
So when you do the due diligence, who are you giving money to?
Thats the throw in of people that youre dealing with in these hysterical times.
To be clear, Im joking a little bit.
Im not rich like Virgil.
There was a certain level of disingenuousness to it that I didnt really fuck with.
In terms of having Virgil on the project, me and him go all the way back.
He madeall the merch forLasers; I dont know if that merch ever came out.
Me and Virgil have been collaborating in different spaces for a while, prior to Pyrex and Off-White.
What would be the most fitting thing to do?
It would be to design a pair of shoes.
And who is the best running-shoe designer in the world?
Virgil is super-creative, super-forward-thinking, and super-artistic, and so it was easy.
We did it before all of that shit [with the donation] jumped off.
So it wasnt done to reframe Virgil into Im really a good guy.
Look at this song I made about Ahmaud Arbery.
Your approach is to revive them and give them new life through music.
What inspires that?Everybody has to die were not going to escape that.
Its not really death that bothers some people.
The process of dying is what people kind of get caught up into.
My father used to have these placards made that would have sayings on them.
You take someone likeJonylah and someone like Alan they were unable to do that.
With Ahmaud, its a little different.
Hes lived not a full life, but hes already lived to a certain extent.
He already expressed the things that he wanted to do and be and experienced some of those things.
I would want my legacy to be which Virgil then kind of put it succinctly that running is freedom.
Many people who are involved in social-justice work, or work made to memorialize lost lives, grow exasperated.
Not you?For me, there is a certain level of relief.
Every time that Im making a Forever [tribute song], I cry like a baby.
Its like a strange affirmation that its complete.
When I finished Jonylah Forever, I was a mess.
Alan Forever, I was a mess.
SHOES, not like amessmess, but crying.
You cry because these people mean something.
I dont mind crying, but it takes something to make me cry.
Right after Ahmaud Arbery, you get George Floyd.
Stop shooting at kids.
Stop dropping bombs on apartment buildings and fucking hospitals.
Stop trying to be vigilantes only for Black people.
I can fight that fight, but I do cry every time I make these fucking songs.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
