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This conversation between John Cameron Mitchell and Marilyn Maye is from theDeath, Sex & Moneypodcast from WNYC Studios.
Ive known jazz cabaret mistress Marilyn Maye for only about five years.
Shes 91 years old, so Ive known her for like .01 percent of her life.
And while her home base is the suburbs of Kansas City, shes in New York a lot.
And I met up with her working at 54 Below, the iconic cabaret in midtown Manhattan.
shes still going strong as a performer.
Marilyn Maye:And you know, it really worked.
We had, we had full houses every night.
John Cameron Mitchell:Really?
You played the age card, and you monetized it.MM:Well, yeah.
I do say that.
JM:When I discovered you was in Provincetown.
I came to see you.
My friends said, just go see Marilyn Maye.
If youre feeling down, go see Marilyn Maye.
JM:Its just all the the things I havent thought about come back.
And I come back to my rent stabilized apartment and I go,ugh, God.
We didnt necessarily chase fameMM:No.
JM:Well now we have to, right?
And worth every nickel.
Because I want to stay.
JM:I mean, youre 90 years old and working hard.MM:Mmhm, like crazy.
JM:You were just working from so young.
Its just part of your life.MM:Oh yeah.
She decided that I would be a singer.
So when I was nine years old, we entered amateur contests.
I think I was 12.
JM:What was going through your mind?
Did you take it in stride?
At the time I didnt realize it was a mistake, but my Dad just loved ladies.
JM:That was weakness?MM:Uh huh.
She found love letters, five, from five different women at the same time.
So she shared all that with me at that age She was strong.
It was not easy.
Not easy at all.
And as soon as I could, I made my way to New York.
JM:Its wild.
Where we had all of our conversations were in a dressing room, it was always in dressing rooms.
When we were in the same town, we would always get together.
And she said, well, I love Sarah Vaughan and Carmen Carmen McRae.
And then: the greatest white singer is Marilyn.
She would say it like that.
Thats so special.MM:Yeah, it was very special, and then we wound up recording.
Ive got a picture of us on either side of a mic I cherish that.
JM:You decided to stay in Kansas City rather than move to the big cities.
So thats why I wound up in Kansas City with him.
I was just too busy making a living.
You know, we had a daughter, and I was just working.
I was singing with bands on the weekend and, and teaching.
He was a dancer.
And I taught the singing and he taught to kids from eight to 18.
We had dance recitals, and I had this darling baby that I was raising while working every day.
JM:Your life was full.
Were you a saver?
Were you a helper?MM:Didnt I think I could.
Didnt I think I could make him quit drinking.
Couldnt just fix him.
You know, I had an alcoholic boyfriend who passed away from it.MM:Oh yeah.
Well my, my third husband then, pianist, same thing.
He passed away from it.
JM:Were all three husbands alcoholics?MM:Uh huh.
Was it in your family?MM:No, not at all.
JM:Isnt that weird?
It wasnt in mine either.
JM:No!MM:No, my mother or dad didnt at all.
MM:It was just fun to kiss and hug.
I always found talent.
You know, my first marriage was one year and then, forget that.
JM:It reminds me of the Ethel Merman thing, her marriage to Ernest Borgnine.
In her biography, theres a chapter that says, My Marriage to Ernest Borgnine.
Well, yes, I can say that about, about the first one.
The second one was this dancer.
We were creative together and making a living together.
And um, so it was a production.
Then the third one was a great pianist.
My talent was what drew me to him and same thing [for me], his great talent.
I loved him for that.
We had such great musical rapport.
JM:You know, we both sometimes have been attracted to maybe wonderful but wrong guys.
Maybe not wrong as much as you know… theres sometimes patterns of behavior.
I get bored with people who havent had problems sometimes, you know.
Did you find that you learned from those experiences?
I would become obsessed.
I always call him my meaningful love affair.
See, by that time I was in my early fifties, I guess.
And just a doll.
I mean he was handsome and wonderful and funny.
JM:Roguish?MM:And just awful.
He was just bad.
JM:I love that.MM:Both sides.
After I would perform, oh, he was so in love with me after Id perform.
And he said, well, how can I separate the two?
Which was kind of smart of him, that was smart.
He was kind of smart.
JM:What did he do?MM:He owned clubs.
He owned nightclubs and he had a very sexy apartment down underneath the club.
It was a hideaway, and wed go there.
But Im sure he took… because he, too, was like my dad maybe in that respect.
And I would leave town and I knew he was with somebody, you know.
I would find out.
Just terrible, just terrible.
But I was just nuts.
I dont know that I was so in love with him, but I was nuts about him.
He proposed to me one time.
And he said,Now we wont say anything more about the past.
This was his condition, right when hes handing me the ring.
And I said, well, okay, thats fine.
Give me the ring.
He said, if we have to talk about last weekend, forget it, you know?
Um, theres a song that I did called I Will Survive.
JM:The disco song?MM:Yeah.
We had broken up, and on this particularCarsonshow, I was doing I Will Survive.
He said, You are?
Oh, well Im flattered.
And I sang right directly into that camera, toyou, son of a B. JM:I will survive.MM:I will survive, and am.
It was a converted, tiny movie theater, but she made it seem like it was the Copacabana.
She gave her all.
Which means shes been through some tough times.
As musical tastes shifted in the 60s and 70s, Marilyn found her talents less in demand.
She always says she was born too late for jazz stardom because rock and roll supplanted it.
But she says that through it all, her most loyal friends and fans were in the gay community.
MM:You know, theyre the ones that love the lyrics.
And they I think live it.
Maybe because of what they had to endure or not.
But I think they live what I sing.
So when I go [to your shows], I feel a kind of catharsis.
Im always crying at your show and always feeling better.MM:Oh, its that bad?
JM:Good crying.
MM:Oh, good cry.
The 80s and 90s, just awful.
My, my precious pianist for 20 years, Mark Franklin.
Mark was one of the early AIDS cases.
JM:Very early.
He was like my child.
For 20 years he was, was with me.
It was terrible to lose him, just terrible.
JM:Did he go fast?MM:He died at 39.
It was just awful.
JM:Have you had any major health issues?MM:No.
Six days in intensive care and then maybe another week or so in the hospital.
They said, well, dont you want to have lunch out out in the dining room?
And I said, everybodys old out there and they were younger than I. JM:Oh my God.
Im terrified of like being in a community of declining people.MM:Yeah.
Well my mother was in a nursing home for four and a half years.
So I spent every day that I could with her in the nursing home.
So Id had enough nursing homes.
They respond.MM:They identify with music.
Its a wonderful thing to be able to go into the nursing homes and sing and reach them.
JM:My mom is a little bit non-responsive sometimes now.
Shes happy, shes very smiley, but you know its hard to put some words together.
And then shes right there.MM:Darling.
JM:Thats the last thing you forget is a song.MM:Yes.
JM:The faces of people you love.
And then the songs.MM:Uh huh.
JM:So for myself, I dont know.
Thats the bad thing.
The ones that would have done that are already gone.
I mean, I grew up Catholic.
I like the idea of memorials, but funerals are so stupid.
We cant do open casket.
Nobody knows how to put my lashes on.
We cant do that.
JM:I know!
Those undertakers are not Broadway quality.MM:Mm-hmm.
One of my dearest friends she was like my soul sister.
We kind of looked alike.
And her name was Betty Holloway.
And I said, oh my gosh, honey, yes of course I will.
JM:Was that scary?MM:Yeah, because I loved her, so it was difficult.
JM:A lot of tears.
Yeah.MM:I dont know that I cried.
I dont cry very much.
I cried so much during my [younger years], I think Im out of that now.
JM:All those men?MM:I laugh a lot now.
