The singer spends most of her time at home, working on a new album.
That doesnt mean shes not paying attention.
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I really want to see the movie.
I mean, I dont know!
she tells me over the phone from her home in Los Angeles.
I go off and I take too long making stuff.
Its hard to say.
Apple got straight to her point.
They overdubbed the word REFUGEES, Apple continued.
Email me if you want to talk.
The Apple I spoke to sounded happy and more grounded than most nonfamous people I know.
She signed her email with a balloon emoji.
Before our phone conversation ended, she trilled lightly, Keep in touch!
And she meant it.
Below is our sprawling conversation (lightly edited for clarity), text addenda and all.
From your perspective, what is happening with theVarietyvideo?I cant be sure, really.
Scott Hechinger fromBrooklyn Defender Servicessent me that video.
And I was like, What the hell is that?
They got in touch withVariety,andVarietytook it down.
[They] called it a technical glitch.
But you saw it.
That didnt look like a technical glitch.
The only reason I can think of is money.
But I dont know.
I know you dont do a lot of press.
As my friend Zelda would say, Im a justice kid.
It doesnt sit right with me that they covered over the wordrefugees.
Everyone has something that they care about, and I care about this.
They wont let you in and they wont even take donations.
I was looking on Twitter, which is unusual for me.
When you’re able to help and you want to, its really wonderful to do that.
And I was like, Whoa, I forgot about that!
Criminal has always been what people ask for the most, so its always been my little help-out-people song.
What made you decide to license Criminal toHustlers?
But I didnt know [Jennifer Lopez] was going to be dancing to it.
And I want it, bad!
Im all for the movie, though, and Im excited to see it.
Lorene says she wrote you a letter, too.
Did you ever receive it?I dont remember receiving a letter from her.
But thats what Im saying theres some kind of disconnect.
I believe her that she wrote me a letter, and that she sent me the scene.
But who knows what happened?
Maybe somebody in the studio is like, We dont trust that girl with this!
Dont send it to her.
Youre very discerning about where your songs go.
I remember reading that you didnt letPanic!
I dont remember hearing the song they wanted to put that in.
Hed already made a big video with that song in the background.
So I was like, Hey, what the fuck is going on here?
at the Disco asked, and I was like,Wow, I cant believe they even asked me.
Usually people just go ahead and use it.
Which I think is hilarious.
Did that get to you?Somebody calling me a bitch?
I just didnt say yes.
I mean, just use a different song.
Its not a big deal.
Like, Yeah, I just said that!
Sticks and stones didnt break my bones, but they fucking bruised me.
Its just words, but words hurt a lot.
But now its like rhinoceros skin.
Its like somebody shooting arrows at you and they bounce off you.
Now its like, it doesnt even track.
How do you keep up with what people are saying about you?
Are you lurking online?Other people tell me.
I dont have Twitter.
I do search things, like when I searched theHustlersthing … to see what people are talking about.
Thats how I found you.
You famously wrote Criminal in 45 minutes at age 17, after the record label asked for a single.
Im not that scared girl in underwear anymore.
The song isnt that to me anymore.
Its my way of paying for things that I want to get done.
That was just a situation where everything was set up when I got there.
I didnt have the treatment of how the video was supposed to be.
They were expecting somebody to come up and be like, Yeah!
versus somebody being like, Im sad.
Nobody has really asked me to shake my booty since then.
So I think Ive avoided that.
I forget that thats my life sometimes.
But thats all, like, me in my house, and Im in control of everything.
So I dont have to be getting other peoples ideas of what I should be doing yet.
Youve always been good at that controlling your own narrative.
How did you develop that power?I dont even think its a power.
I do think Ive always had it.
So then people dont think of me to call up and badger to come out and do stuff.
So I never go out and do stuff, because its never expected.
My family hasnt seen me at Christmas celebrations for years and years.
So I just dont get invited anymore.
I mean, thats an exaggeration.
I assumed in the beginning I could do whatever I want.
Thats what drew so many women I know to you in the first place.
I never said the world was bullshit, I just saidthisworld was bullshit.
Referring to the room that I was in and the whole music scene, which its not bullshit anymore.
[Laughs loudly.]
That was … incredible.
What makes that the case?I have no idea.
I think people are getting more and more selfish.
Not all around its hard to answer big world questions.
I dont know why things are the way they are.
I think Im getting close to finishing.
While Im doing it, I have to put the rest of it out of my mind.
Ill be okay, I just know that its not going to be all enjoyable.
I dont feel likethisanymore.
Are you able to detach yourself from the publicity process more than you used to?Not exactly.
After seven years away, what is she like in this situation now?
Im sort of observing myself, seeing what its like.
When do you think the album might be ready?I mean, I dont know!
Its hard to say.
I was supposed to be done a million years ago.
And I go off and I take too long making stuff.
Im hoping for early 2020.
Can you compare it to any of your earlier albums?
Or does it feel like its completely its own thing?Its probably its own thing.
But I dont know how to articulate that.
You take your time between albums.
Theyre like, Come on, when are we gonna get back to the album?
Ive been making this album with my band, and they all have other gigs.
Theyve got to make money.
So that slows things down a bit.
And I tend to forget about working after a while.
And then be like, Hey, whats going on?
Lets play, lets play.
I mean, Im always writing in my head.
I spend a lot of time with my dog.
I live here in my house with my friend Zelda and her dog, and we just hang out.
We play with dogs and work on our stuff and go out for walks.
I have a very simple life.
Are you aware of it, and does that get internalized for you?Hearing you say that …
I like the sound of that.
I will choose to believe that.
Id like to internalize that.
That would be great.
When you do leave your house, whats your relationship like with fame, with your fans?
Do you interact with them, do they approach you?I dont get approached a lot.
Im not around people enough for it to be a thing.
Anytime anyone talks to me, theyre always really nice.
Not that Im actually friends with everyone I meet.
But if youre intimate with my music, youre intimate with me and Im intimate with you.
I feel like youre my friend.
Maybe thats a little bit too childlike, but I do feel like that.
Vultureprofiled you in 2012and you had a great quote, which Ill read to you.
The profiler starts: I assumed she wanted to talk about her album; she said she didnt care.
Does that resonate for you now?Yeah.
I felt that way after that album, and this is me getting to that place with this one.
The last album, it was just me and [producer] Charley Drayton, doing it all ourselves.
This time, its just me and the band.
The last record and this record feel more like mine than the other records.
Not that I dont feel like the other records are mine.
Whats your relationship to your old music?
Do you ever listen to it?No, no, no.
I have some homework.
Im not Liz Phair anymore.
Do you feel that way?Yeah!
I dont have such a public self, so I dont think I really have to put it away.
And then just being naked by yourself.
Because youre always alone!
That was when I was 17, so Ive been this way for a while.
I just dont have a social need to go out.
I was on way too much medication for a while.
Now Im on way less medication.
But pot helps me.
Alcohol helped me for a while, but I dont drink anymore.
Now its just pot, pot, pot.
And I get up at like 5 a.m. What made you decide to do that?
I dont think youve done that before.No.
Her name was Ashley.
Ive stayed in touch with her and I call her my pseudo-daughter.
And I stay in touch with Simon now, too.
Simons my friend now.
We talk to each other about nothing to do with his postings.
And he said there were a lot of fan questions, and would I do something like that?
Can you tell me the story of giving away your Grammy?
You told TMZ in 2017, I dont know where it is at this point.
I gave it away.
But it turns out you cant auction it off.
I loved yourKneel Portnow shirt.Personally, I met him a couple times, maybe.
Thats not misspeaking, you know?
And because I felt that.
But you cant just say something like that and be like, I love women!
Im doing something for women!
So people dont want to step up and be seen as the bad guy in public.
But I dont know.
Im really speaking out of my ass because I havent been in those situations for a while.
You didnt have time to figure out, what would I want to wear?
Because they already laid it out for you.
And you dont want to be ungrateful, because theyre giving you your life, right?
Its gotta be tough for really young people.
NPRrecently called you thegodmother of 2019What?!
Meaning youve influenced Billie Eilish, Lana Del Rey, Maggie Rogers, etc.
Do you think thats a fair assessment?
Do you listen to any of them?I dont really follow, uh, I dont.
Yougot really candid with TMZlast year when they caught you at the airport.
You replied: Fuck yes.
Are you fucking kidding me?
But I cant tell them.
Legally, I cannot.
Id be putting myself in danger if I told some of them.
I think when Im older Ill write a book.
And then I can say whatever I want to say.
Ill write my story.
Its all about money.
Thats why each one of those things gets to me.
Its selling lies, for personal gain.
BUT more importantly, I forgot to tell you my J.Lo story from like 1996 or 97!
I was in NY at a pre-Grammy party (because I used to go to shit like that).
Well, shes been saying complimentary things about you and your music on theHustlerspress tour.She HAS?!
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
